can men and women ever be friends?

you may recall a small dilemma I was experiencing a while ago. . .

or, on the other hand, you may not. . .

(it's only a blog, after all - silly to get things out of perspective, eh)

. . .you'll be pleased to know that the situation has resolved itself: my friendship has been chucked (by email, no less)! oh well, saved me the bother, I suppose

so, what do we think, lovely people,
can men and women ever ("just") be friends?

18 comments:

Dave said...

Yes.

Mel said...

By email?!

Oy brother.....



Oh.
And yup. They can.
:-)

Mel said...

Ohhhh....and I really liked the Harry and Sally film.

Wow.
There's a movie I've actually seen!! Woohooo!!

zIggI said...

nope

not in this life

only fathers and brothers and sons(no not other peoples!)

oh yes and gays - now they make great friends.

I, Like The View said...

ZiggZ I need a BGMF (best gay male friend) I think - all the companionship with a man but none of the hassle for sex

I mean, what are men like!!!

this guy and I had been friends for eleven months - just friends, never kissed or held hands, he touched me once (whilst we were playing croquet) and once again (ushering me somewhere or other) and now, because I won't text him every day, explain my every waking minute in great detail, because there was a more than 24 hour period in between receiving and responding to a text he sent, because I am not prepared to "up the ante" (to whatever his "ante" may be) my friendship is dumped

not even a "let's be friends, and I'm going to date someone else properly" option (which he could very have been doing anyhow)(I haven't enquired)

or, on the other hand - perhaps he found me and my friendship very dull, and the fact I expressed a preference to go to the Tate than the Imperial War Museum (despite saying we did my choice last time, so let's sally on down to the IWM) says it all

Mel that's a first!

Mel oy, indeed

how? (please tell me!)

Dave how? (by which I mean, how do you manage to remain friends with someone who finds you sexually attractive, but you don't want to go to bed with them - for your own personal reasons?)

I, Like The View said...

(that was supposed to read: "despite my saying well we did my choice last time, so let's go to the IWM this time")

Dave said...

I've met quite a few new women in the last few years (most of my 21 blog-meets have been with women). Clearly they are all attracted to me - that's obvious - but I've managed to be, and to remain, friends with all of them.

But then, I guess I am pretty special.

I, Like The View said...

you are, dear Dave VERY

(and no, I don't mean that in the teenage-speak sense of the word)

actually, come to think about it, since we've spilt up the X and I have maintained a very healthy and respectable friendship - but perhaps that's because sex is very clearly NOT on the agenda. . .

I don't mean to sound ranty about this guy, I mean I respect his choices in not wanting to pursue our "friendship" because that's all it's going to be - but I suppose I am slightly exasperated

he must have realised the first time we met that that was all I was looking for, and during the eleven months since nothing else occurred to suggest that either I or he might be interested in "more" (whatever that might be) - and now that's what he wants, and I don't, do he no longer wants to be friends. . .

but, life's a curve and one has to learn - so, next time I meet someone, what do I do?!

(do I sound ranty? I don't mean to)

KAZ said...

Yes - it is possible - as long as you have stuff in common (e.g. work or the films of Rainer Werner Fassbinder) and you don't fancy each other rotten.

I, Like The View said...

but there's the rub, see, KAZ, oh wise one, I thought we did have stuff in common - and his "not in common" was interesting to me (and I showed great interest in it) and vice versa (and ditto). . .

I'm not a great looker, by any means, and am no one of those overtly sexual people, but I kinda suspect he did fancy me (altho he never showed any inkling)(so perhaps he didn't!)

I didn't fancy him - perhaps I should have told him on the first meet? but then we wouldn't have had a nice 11-month friendship

anyone know any London based gay men I could be friends with?

then there'd be no chance of being fancied (or vice versa)

on the other hand, perhaps I've worn this subject out now and should think about something else

Z said...

Oh darling, on another blog I read (no one you know, I think) she's wondering if she feels too much too soon, and whether or not to show it for fear of putting him off.

It's very hard to get exactly the right balance for both of you. I don't think one should feel obliged to fancy someone and I don't think that all friendships between a man and a woman are doomed to fail unless they *move on* to something more. I don't think, either, that not fancying someone from the start means you never will - for a start, it means you get a chance to know each other simply at friends without complications first. But there's no obligation. It should be possible, but only too often it isn't.

I, Like The View said...

Z you know, when I was a younger single if I didn't fancy someone, or he didn't fancy me, but something struck up between us anyhow, I was able to be a good friend - I had lots of male friends who I didn't have sex with (whether or not either one of us actually secretly wanted sex is another matter, but it was ok to be friends who didn't have sex)

I suppose that's what I'd hoped to find. . .

and with this guy it was actually a relief not to fancy him and/or be secretly hoping/wondering if he fancied me!

perhaps I'm just approaching this whole thing all wrong (if you can call a handful of internet dates an "approach", that is)

if only I could contently look at the remainder of my life and think I'll be happy being alone

only I can't

I, Like The View said...

but thank you!

mig said...

By email!!! Hmm.

I'm pretty sure you can. But it's a lot easier to achieve if you're both quite confidant and accepting that neither of you is available for anything sexual because then as soon as the thought crosses your mind you can remind yourself that it's not an option. But of course if you say so up front (and you've got no obvious reason like one of you is gay or taken) you're stuck with the 'not thinking about it' syndrome.

I have to say I think your unfriend is an idiot. He's lost something irreplaceable and precious in your friendship.

Mel said...

Gosh--I've maintained friendships with fella's for a good number of years. 27 years would be the longest one.
I'm clear and he's clear--you cross that line and someone'll be identifying the body parts. And I don't think he opted to distrust that statement. *laughing*

And there's a reason folks press people to have a WPIML the same gender--cuz we don't all play 'fair' or 'honest' or 'upfront'. BUT--I've had a male WPIML for eons. Some for 20 years, some less--and there's been a acute respect for the other person's role. Neither of us were or are willing to compromise what relationship we had/have--period.

There's a degree of 'grown-up-ness' that's required, I guess. Or at the very least, in my case--a healthy FEAR of retribution if that line's crosses, maybe? ;-)
I don't muck up other people's lines, I don't expect others to muck up lines with me.
Simple--but apparently it requires that healthy respect(or fear) to keep things in tact.

Now, that's just my experience. Don't get me wrong--I've had some 'line crossers'. And because I'm clear of what I'm willing and not willing to tolerate and because I'm forthright and vocal about that--I 'moved' in the relationship. In a couple cases, I moved FROM the relationship. I can't compromise my integrity by doing less and I'm not willing to compromise my boundaries either.

*shrugs* That's what works for me. I don't know how other people do it. I only know what works for me.

I'm not a friend with 'fringe benifits'. I don't know HOW to be that, today. (didn't know how to BEFORE himself showed up in my life!) I won't pretend to be in a place that I'm not, yaknow?
And either that's respected--or it's not.
I'm one hell of a friend.
I don't know why someone would wanna screw with having that in their life.

I guess I'd say the same goes for you.
You're one HELL of a friend--I don't get why one would want to mess with having that, exactly as is--unless there's some 'hole' in THEM that they're looking to have you fill.
You can't fill that hole. You can breech gaps--you cannot fill the holes.

I'm sad for you and for him. Mostly cuz I know how the loss feels--and I know that 'spin' that it sounds like you're doing.

I, Like The View said...

Mel thank you

mig you know, I did think of emailing back saying something along the lines of "well, if you ever need a friend you know how to reach me" but I didn't

it seemed churlish, after he'd decided he didn't need my friendship

(oh, and Mel - thank you again)

katherine. said...

this was very interesting.

I should take notes

I, Like The View said...

katherine. when you've worked out the sense in it all, do share with me, please!